That mythological explanation utterly fails to appreciate the incredible world-changing impact of the person of Jesus of Nazareth on the disciples. He was with God in the beginning.” The Word was both God, and with God. Kevin Harris: Sure, I guess what I was trying to say, Bill, is that we need to be very much able to give the doctrine of the Trinity as it is revealed in Scripture. (See 3.2 belowand section 3.1of thesupplementary document on unitarianism.) There's no evidence whatsoever of that. What is a good analogy for the trinity? How can we reduce it down? So a triangle may not be an analogy to the trinity, but an analogy to the coherence of three in one. the Trinity. That would be a contradiction. This is where most of the humanly devised analogies we use to represent the Trinity fall short. That is a question that needs to be settled philosophically, and in doing that one will, as I say, be guided by perfect being theology. But Scripture is under-determinative with respect to how you understand eternity. Kevin Harris: Is the Trinity, however, a mystery? Dr. Craig: Well, I would say that's silly. Another good proof-text would be Isaiah 44:6 (and I went into more detail in my article 3 Reasons Atheists Are Afraid To Read Isaiah) which reads, âSo said the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer the Lord of Hosts.” Both times the word Lord are used, they replace the word YHWH, the name of God. These are just three modes that he takes. Seems to a sound analogy of trinity, and parcel of keeping reason to you do so my only in. What was that analogy that you gave in Florida, and what were his concerns? Meaning “traces of the Trinity,” vestigia Trinitatis is all about identifying the Trinitarian underpinnings of a universe spoken into existence by a triune God. Also, the egg is made up of three distinct and unalike parts. That's the question that unitarians and other skeptics of the Trinity would pose for us trinitarians. And it was Jewish through and through from the start. Perhaps you’ve heard the analogy that the Trinity is like H 2 O (the molecular symbol for water). Eggs are one, yet comprise yolk, shell and albumen. But when you provide an illustration or an analogy, if you've captured the doctrine of the Trinity correctly then it would be to posit some entity that would be analogous to God in his tri-personal being. It may seem like an illogical model of God (although I argued against this in my article Is The Trinity A Logical Model of God? In response to hearing of the doctrine of the trinity, people may pose the question, “but how could God be both three and one?” That is a clear contradiction, so how could that be so? | Theme by SuperbThemes.Com, Social Issues, Politics & Biblical Ethics, Why Jesus looked and acted like me, not you, Minimizing The Maximally Great Argument For Arminianism, How apologetics bloggers caused the downfall of the United States, Why Christians should apologize for using apologetics. Dr. Craig: No, because that's my own view, the view that you just described. I mentioned the analogy of a woman who had three different roles earlier: she is a wife, mother and teacher. For us to draw these comparisons only muddies the water. How would you respond? If someone already has an understanding based on the definition and explanation above, then these analogies might help them grasp aspects of the Trinity. The testimony of Scripture is that there is one God who is eternally present in three persons. A man who is a father, a son, and a husband is not three distinct persons. We can still understand what the Bible says. These are likewise erroneous or even heretical. I think New Testament scholarship has come to appreciate that Christianity as a movement is rooted in the person of Jesus of Nazareth. Just a few notes of caution. So in this verse, there are two who are called YHWH: the Redeemer and the King of Israel. Stop overcomplicating everything. The sun comprises the sun itself, its light and its heat. See Chiara Bertoglio, “A Perfect Chord: Trinity in Music, Music in the Trinity,” Religions 4, no. Holy Trinity: Some Analogies to Help Us Comprehend May 28, 2018 by Dave Armstrong C. S. Lewis made a famous analogy of “flatland,” squares, and cubes in his Mere Christianity… As we appeal to these elements of the world that people know and comprehend, we try to render the trinity relatable. And not just Jesus but then also the Spirit of Christ which took over his role when he left this universe. ===== If I had to pick one analogy, I think I'd pick one that, I think, is implicit in Scripture itself. Stay on top of the information you need to navigate the admissions process amid the COVID-19 pandemic. Obviously he is not both three gods and one god, and obviously he is not both three persons and one person. One of the best Trinity analogies, in my opinion, is Dr. Craig's Cerberus analogy. It is only like that because you are the one explaining it and you are overcomplicating it. So in this analogy, you have one egg but this one egg is only an egg when it has the yoke, the white and the shell. Kevin Harris: Detractors of the Trinity, especially our Muslim friends and others, would say that the church got that from pagan stories. Dr. Craig: Well, exactly. So I see the constraints on doing theology as being first and foremost Scripture, and then you will interpret Scripture in light of perfect being theology. Learn what the trinity is, because there is a succinct and simple definition that is easy to understand. The good thing about the illustration, though, is it does help to get us thinking about how can you have a tri-personal being? And that is obviously something that makes one very uncomfortable. Dr. Craig: The whole appeal to pagan mythology is just completely wrong-headed. Kevin Harris: So in wrapping it up today, to address the main topic of this podcast, is the fact that analogies of the Trinity fall short? But, when it's heated, it turns into a gas (steam) and, when it's frozen, it turns into a solid (ice). And that will get you a doctrine of three persons in one being. The Trinity is Like an Egg. Kevin Harris: I also want to mention that twice now Dr. White has made intimations that on our podcast we put philosophy over the Word of God. It is not perfect (no analogy can be), but it opens a window for us to contemplate the Trinity. Transcript Is There a Good Analogy for the Trinity? There may be no analogy of the trinity that does not break down at some point. What sense can you make of a tri-personal being? In his book Traces of the Trinity, Leithart dives deep into a little-known theological concept called vestigia Trinitatis. One will construe God's attributes in such a way as to glorify and magnify God as the greatest conceivable being. Dr. Craig: I don't seen any differentiation between the doctrine of the Trinity and the Trinity itself. 1. What is a good analogy for the trinity? How are we to handle various attempts at illustrations and analogies of this crucial doctrine? So that when we interpret Scripture we will interpret it in such a way as to magnify and glorify God to the greatest extent. I think it should be pointed out that the trinity is not necessarily a mystery. ©2021 Therefore, God Exists
But God does not take on different modes. John empowers this point toward the end of his prologue as he calls Jesus (v. 18) “…the only begotten God, in the bosom of the Father…” So we see two distinct persons within the one God. So ultimately Cerberus, though it gets you some direction toward the Trinity, it ultimately falls short. The best one is the Shield of Athanasius, also known as the Scutum fidei , “the Shield of Faith,” precisely because it doesn’t address the functional economy at all! And then I hear you say that we can go on and try to show the rationale and that it's not contradictory and so on, in defining and describing the Trinity itself. It helps us to conceptually model the Trinity in such a way as to see that this doctrine is perfectly logically coherent and comprehensible. This seems to carry over into theology. The reason I feel uncomfortable with the Cerberus story is not because it isn't helpful in understanding the question of how you can have a tri-personal entity. according to augustine, the fact that humans are made in the image of god indicates that there should be traces of the trinity … That is by no means a perfect analogy. What I'm referring to is an analogy that you gave of the Trinity that came under attack from our friend Dr. James White. Kevin Harris: Philosophy helps us to fill in some gaps, though, that perhaps Scripture doesn't specifically address? Yet we look to the heavens and hold expectations of God. True, we humans are image bearers but nothing in creation serves as an analogy for the Trinity because the Trinity is a doctrine of special (biblical) revelation not nature or reason. But it is not an accurate explanation of the Triune God because it portrays Modalism. 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